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Sunday, February 13, 2011

WWPD News From the Front Episode 13

"What Would Cupid Do?"

Steven, Luke, Joe and Jon have a few to drink and talk about their recent tournament experience in Williamsburg VA. The fellas go on to talk about Airplanes and Panzer Lehr in Flames of War. They also "arrrrrghhhh" rant about the negative connotations "tourney play" has, and encourage gamers to give FoW tournaments a shot- they really aren't bad!


  • 0:00 - Intro & After Action
  • 0:44 - Shoutout @ The Battlefront Podcast
  • 0:50 - Know Your Frenemy: Panzer Lehr
  • 1:10 - Blog Pick: Anatoli's Game Room
  • 1:12 - Jon's Statistics Corner
  • 1:24 - N00b Zone: Aircraft
  • 1:44 - AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHH - "tourney" vs "friendly" play
Download this week's episode directly:
Subscribe via iTunes:
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Links discussed in this episode:
View From the Turret:
CWF Gamecast:
Radio Free Battlefront:
Anatoli's Game Room:

  • Pardon our incorrect handling of tank riders- we are all soviet n00bs. Tank Riders DO count FOR motivation but do NOT count against
  • As always- pardon our horrible pronunciations. That's how we roll
  • Don't forget about our contest!


Anatoli said...

Hi guys, really cool of you to bring up my blog :-D

It Was a very nice surprise to wake up to!

On the blog content note, yeah it's mostly variations of Gothic Horror/Lovecraftian horror at the moment. I'm pretty much trying to have a variety of stuff going on at the same time to keep it interesting but on a Weird WW2 note I'm into Secrets of the Third Reich and Incursion - a lot actually haha. It's only that I've been painting stuff for SoTR and Incursion over the past 2 years so I pretty much painted everything I need which just leaves room for playing and enjoying those games.

I am very much so getting into Flames of War/15mm WW2, rulebooks and first models are on their way from various sources which should make interesting reading&reviewing of product quality throughout the spring for you FoW nuts as I start assembling/painting/playing Early War with a Polish army :-)

Keep up the good work!

Lee said...

Another good podcast lads,made my nightshift go a little quicker.


Versch said...

Hey guys!

To comment on one of the last points made "The point of a game is to win". Reiner Knitzia said it best..."The point of a game isn't to win, but to TRY to win". At first I didn't understand his point, but after a bit of reflection, I realize it addresses the defeatist attitudes out there when things don't go thier way all the time and give up.

But to add to the discussion, I agree that players not wanting to go to tournaments is fear of getting beat by strangers. They are comfortable competing amongst thier own friends. Not all wargamers are type A positive personalities. But not wanting to participate in toureys is more than likely an insecurity issue.


indierockclimber said...

That is a great quote! And yes, I think you're right. Also, I do think 'The point of a game is to win' is not entirely accurate and really doesn't reflect my point of view. I don't think that's the point- it's the goal. The point is to have fun- it's why I'm playing with miniatures rather than staying home and doing yard work.

At my last tournament experience I played 3 games- won 2 and lost 1. And to be perfectly honest, the one game I lost was probably the more "fun" of the 3. The other two were fairly lopsided and not all that exciting. But when my SS Tigers came desperately crashing into the horde of soviets in a valiant attempt at regaining the initiative- that was fun!

Thanks for commenting Versch :)

Luke said...

I still disagree because I am a stubborn bastard. The point of a game (for me) is not to try to win, it is to win. We derive entertainment from playing the game and that is what keeps us coming back. The enjoyment of the game will vary based on how you approach it and what you are looking to get out of it.

I like the thought that aversion to tournament play is based on insecurity. That is a very good point. I think it has a lot to do with how little a person knows of the rule systems that they may be playing.

JimBrown said...

Guys, I'm loving the podcast. Over the past month I've worked through your back catalog and am finally current on the show.

I don't always agree but it's always entertaining.

My limerick submission

Joe says 'Wow!' when he can,
but his limericks never do scan,
when asked, by the by,
"Oh why Joe, oh why?"
He replied, "I always try to fit as many words into the last line as I possibly can."

Kevin said...

re tourney play:
I would point out that your gaming group goes as a group and as often or not plays one another at least once in the rounds. Also you fit in the typical FOW demographic. Consider how you would feel going to a tourny by yourself and you know no one there and you clearly - due to race/sex/age - dont fit in the demographic of most of the other players.


Versch said...


As a confident,cocky, and personnable sumuna bish, I feel the demographic is defined by ME!...wherever I may be. I have a 20yr olds mind with a 40yr old body. When I visit a new LGS I don't want to work up a ladder, I want to play the store's top dog. I want to be challenged every game so that I become a better player. Basically, I'm a competitive dude.

Going to a FoW tournament means I'm going to be playing with/against FoW hobbyists. The demographic is clearly defined as far as I see. Age/sex/Race does not affect me because I know I'm going to be playing people with a common interest. And that common interest is FoW. I make a friend every game I play at a FoW tournament...with some exceptions.

The only thing that DOES irk me as a tournament player is playing against 'Home store' gamers that have developed gross interpretations of the rules as written. You know what I mean I'm sure...the guy's who've been teaching the local masses incorrectly and aren't used to being corrected on rule oversights. This is where the fun level can drop because of 'This is how we've always done it' rulings. Of course, don't try and prove your point showing them the clear text in the rulebook...that'll just earn you the 'Rules Lawyering' tag.

Lol, I've digressed.

Versch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Luke said...

Tournaments can be what you want them to be. We travel together because we are friends and enjoy each other's company. In our gaming group we have every demographic, except females unfortunately. You got the fat, but exceedingly handsome guy (me), the goofy looking guy (jon) the young nerdy guy (steve) the old guy (eric) the strong, but silent type (joe), the geek (Brian). If you just want to go and play and not talk to anyone you can do it. If you want to meet new people or make it a social event with your friends do it!
Try going to a team tournament and bring a close friend. That way you have the company, you have someone to assist in the rules and the comfort level of having a close friend with you.
I went to my first real tournament alone and literally knew NO ONE! However, by the end of the three games (which I lost each one 1-6) I had met some great guys, got some email addresses and forums where I could interact with other gamers and my comfort level went through the roof. It's like the guy who goes to a packed dance club then leans against the wall drinking his beer alone and says there are no girls there.
Send me an email ( and maybe we can set up some games with you or to partner up in some regional tournaments. We don't care what race/age/sex you are as long as you read the rulebook and don't act like a douche.

Luke said...

My experience with the house rule gamers, as you called them, at tournaments is very simple: Politely ask them to show you that in the rulebook or say you are a little unclear and look it up yourself.
If they say well that is how we do it back home, you can always do the guy from Office Space speech "um yeah, I'm gonna need you not move that infantry there, yeah cause it's really not the rule, thanks"

Kevin said...

Thanks for the offer but I was trying to point out to you a reason some folks shy away from FOW tournaments, I do go with a friend and one of the main reasons we go is to make sure we are not off base on rules. For example at Williamsburg I learned about aircraft placement (up to 6") and rotateing heavy/immobile guns. I enjoy the blog btw, so keep em coming.

Luke said...

Sorry for going off track. I would venture to say that a person in your example is having a lot of social issues, not just at gaming tournaments :)

Andy said...

'sup guys! Great show again! Mik and I will not be at Cold Wars, but I am on track for Historicon. I don't always attend a far-away historical miniatures gaming convention. But when I do, it's usually Historicon.

And on the competitive vs. fun play, I think you came pretty close to my position when somebody finally mentioned just wanting to do something else. I have played a fair amount of high visibility tournaments in my day-- including the '93 UK Games Workshop Grand Tournament where I took 3rd place in Blood Bowl-- but now I simply lack the time and willpower to learn the rules that well. When I play, I don't play to lose, but there wouldn't be any point in me showing up for a serious tournament. It is simply not my goal to play at that level. I don't need the education, I'm not putting the effort into that. Father of three kids, career, etc...

I'm sure if I were in a thriving FoW group like you guys, I would feel different. But here, we're playing FoW like once every 3 months, and there's just a lot more I'd rather do than get my ass kicked five times playing FoW.

What Would Patton Do,
A first round loss at Cold Wars?
Keep Calm, Carry On

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